Fed up with Church

I have had several conversations recently with people who (when I have told them something of our journey) have expressed a disatisfaction with Institutional Church. Surprising people, including a pastor of an independent Church, a lecturer in theology and several others who have been involved in leadership. This discontentment is not really about their own Christian life, but more about the effectiveness or function of Church. I think that this feeling is reflected in the general community. People are suspicious of Church-goers, but interested when you talk about leaving one, but not leaving your faith. Why is this?

I thought it would be interesting to post some of the issues we have wrestled with over the last year. For me I have undergone such a transition since we left a Pentecostal Church in November last year that it is hard to know where to start.

However...

Firstly, a problem I see is that organisations get to a point where they no longer serve the vision for which they were created, but rather their own existence and furtherment. This is as evident in secular organisations as it is in the Church. Getting to the route of this is difficult, but maybe it has to do with people in positions of power and influence getting comfortable with things and no longer wanting to launch out on new projects or if the project is no longer hitting the spot, not wanting to close it down.

One example of this to me is the SEER centre in Scotland. What started with a mission to discover and demonstrate new ways of organic agriculture seems to have turned into selling a product. I recently bought some of the crushed rock they sell, because after reading Graham Harvey's book 'We want real food' I wanted to try it on my tomatoes. It cost around fifteen quid a 20kg bag and I guess came all the way from Scotland. When I opened the bags the stuff looked awfully familiar. After a bit more research (and nothing forthcoming from SEER about what it is they ship 377 miles) I realised that I could buy rock dust from Clee Hill quarry about 5 miles away. What I didn't have and what SEER don't seem to want to let you know from their site, is the knowledge that they sell basalt/dolerite rock flour or rock dust and there are quarries all over the country which sell almost the same thing. Clee Hill sell it for seventeen pounds per tonne!

My point is not really about the SEER Centre - although one might question the environmental cost of shipping heavy stuff all over the country - but rather that organisations start altruistic and become self serving. This is very true of many Churches and very true of the one we were in. In the Church this means that people can become more interested in serving their own needs and seeing the success of thier own 'club' rather than serving. In fact if an activity cannot be seen to have results in terms of increasing the numbers/visibility/standing of the Church it may not be backed.

To me, though this is because of people's imperfection, it is a result of being in an organisation (and probably I mean a modern one). Losing this modern view of the organised Church or Churches may help us re-focus on the vision. Ancient saints often visibly failed. Their lives were often not successful in the eyes of man, in fact they shunned the trappings of success. Are we prepared to look like we have failed to succeed in the eyes of God?

Comments

[garth]

They are great questions to ask and ultimately its a journey in entertaining new perspectives which leads to new understandings.

[Sue]

I read your blog & want to tell you that I am in Sydney, Australia & currently go to a Pentecostal church & have been so discontented about the Pentecostal church structure, the aim to get people in to preach to, but then they don't go anywhere from there!
The pastors of Pentecostal churches have complete say over who does what, who gets recognised, what decisions are made for the church. If the pastor wants/likes you, you will get opportunities for ministry, if you don't fit the profile they want, then you don't. This is not what I understand the Body of Christ to be about - Pentecostal churches have become what they originally disdained - the clery & the laity; except there is only the senior pastor route to ministry - even Bible College doesn't help if the pastor doesn't want to use your gifts.
What do you think?

[David]

Amen amen and amen. We have lots of "experience" with pentecostals. I was in leadership/worship leader for years. I won't go into too much detail, but I have big concerns about the structure, the attitude to leaders (total submission even if they are wrong), the way that the 'gifts' of the Spirit are used and more besides. I think the emphasis on ministry within the church is totally wrong. There is a real need for Christians to get out into the real world... if you want to talk more email me, it's probably best done off the blog.

[Kevin]

This is a great assessment and the same thing is occuring in America. Many times, the love, afection and outreach are available during the early visits to a new church. Gradually, after conformity is sought,an invitation to serve in activities (many of which are centered on church growth and sustainablility) is offered. Ultimately we have a structure that resembles a well oiled corporate enterprise where once again, the lonely and wounded are left rejected. I have been to churches when I was weak and truly seeking God's will. Unfortunately, most churches don't have time for the wounded beyond a month or two. The consistent theme has been, "God helps those who help themselves". Ironically, the most mature Christians that I know are now experiencing the same frustrations. They are unable to reject the Lord but very hesitant to get involved in modern day churches. I empathize with your situation. I've also been to churches when I was hurting but I pretended to be well. Ironically, I seemed to fit in quite well. I wasn't viewed as a burden, but as a worker. In fact, Rick Warren of Saddleback church labels sensitive, hurting Christians as "fragile". No room for them in an expanding church. It seems that we must be strengthened and perfected in Christ alone before healthy fellowship can be enjoyed. I have given up seeking for help in the local church but I do look more to receive and give true love anytime/anywhere that God is working. The beauty is that we are enjoying the new freedom from man made rules, and we find that giving a tithe to the homeless or weak directly, can be very rewarding. Thanks for the voice and for sharing.

[David]

Kevin

Again amen. It is all this that made us leave a couple of years ago and I'm not sorry!

What worries me is that so much of the direction or vision about churches is self-serving rather than serving.

I feel now that so many 'fragile' people are asking questions that the church doesn't answer very well - good questions. What do you think?

[john Stanier]

I have just recently left a Pentecostal church and am still experiencing some of the resulting hurt.

I have come to the conclusion that so many churches seem to have lost the understanding that church is people.

They get so taken up with activities that seem to become and end in themselves, that they seem to forget that church =people.

When the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, the flames of fire settled on individuel heads, but what was born was the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the Church.

I love the concept that God brings together people from all sorts of backgrounds, all sorts of gifts and abilities, and all sorts of experience.

If only we could keep the freshness of that. Instead we seem to cast people into a particular roll and leave them there.

We are "living stones" who need to be encouraged to change into the people He wants us to be. Leadership must learn that people will always want to go where He wants them to go, and should not try to squeeze them into a their mold!

When John Wimber came to the UK he said that the main message God had given him for this nation was, "I want my church back" This is as valid now as it was then.

There are thousands of believers in the
Uk who now longer go to a 'church' but meet with other believers to worship etc.

They are determined to BE christians and to see people drawn into the Kingdom, but can no longer stomach church as we have known it.

They want the freedom to be the people God has called them to be just where they are, at home, in the supermarket, at work. wherever they are.

Please let the Church be the church it was designed and created to be.

Ant more thoughts?

[Tim]

Dear Fellow minded,I was so pleased to discover these comments about being fed up with church,I wonder how many like minded souls their may be,enough to start another church hmmmmm,then the problem multiplies,so what is the answer,I do not know?In my case I wish to tell you how I cope but I will not pretend it is an answer for all.I still attend church even though I feel like an alien,I do so because I find like mined folk some times and the church is necessary,or is it for the lost to hear the word of God,I rarely get involved deeply as I do not wish to become part of a structure that often exsists for itself but the Lord I am glad to say gives me work in his body,I said body not church,I'm often faced with a human need that I can fill besides charitable work that is on-going,thus I'm surronded with folk who need me and I them based on love.I hope this may assist.Your brother Tim

[Jim]

I am dissatisfied with what I have experienced in several local Churches in the last nine years. My dissatisfaction is not toward my own Christian walk, but toward the goals, effectiveness, and function of the Church. I have discovered that I can leave the Church without leaving my faith, and this is not how it should be. A large part of my dissatisfaction centers from experiences with Pentecostal Churches.

Churches exist today to serve the vision of the senior pastor. On more than one occasion I have witnessed groups of 30 to 40 people just leave the church quietly because the leadership was too set on a specific path to consider any change; from God or man. The Church has become no different than a corporate organization with a budget, expected tithe income, debt management, and market growth. Programs exist as marketing tools to draw in new members. If an activity cannot be seen to have results of increasing membership numbers, the activity will not be backed. There is nothing I saw to support long-term individual spiritual growth and discipleship. The focus is to attract new Church members. Existing members are expected to serve quietly without recognition, pay tithes regularly, and support the organization without question. This is a perverse organizational distortion of who we are as the Church.